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Hi Guys, Here are my scribbled notes from the mock validation.

Development of course - could be two modes Undergraduate and Postgraduate. could offer it up as PG to other Health Professionals Group work, vivas, role play - all modes of learning (A good thing i believe)

Transferable skills - need to be more explicit in outcomes and aims

Title - Don't use things like 'Excellence' or 'succeeeding.... 'needs to be more neutral like 'Managing your practise'

Outcomes -- take away some 'Developing a business plan' is a learning outcome. Doesn't have to be in indicative content

Needs restructuring - bring some of the indicative content up as ILOs as assessable and measurable

tension about some business skills. maybe lower levels. how do you maintain level 5 and 6ish?

some formatives can be just part of course content and don't need to be assessed.

4,500 words for 30 crdits. is that too much?

Look at book costs, cost of delivery

Conclusion - Not approved 1) Confusion about level of course. Undergraduate or postgraduate? Can't have level 5 in a masters must be level 6 or 7 (Goes against QAA regs)  How do you bring basic business skills into a masters Course that has to be level 6 or 7 ? (My question)  A: Make it non assessable, make it part of course in PDP portfolio or make it beginning of something bigger..formative rolling into summative which then shows level 6-7. All about wording.look at FHEQ levels

what about other nationalities. i.e tax will be different in France

Positives - scope and volume of assessment

My notes from panel discussion.

Alternative business course presentations

Questions

How is this different to a classic pdp model? There is already something in the embryonic stage. Historically there has been people coming in but people are still very green. This is different so is an ideal time to develop it.

How does it fit with current course set up or as a postgraduate module? It is a shortfall in the current course. It will be part of the clinical hours which are currently only patient focused so will enhance course. Then it is a matter IMF integration so will start in year 3 and fit into year 4. Shifting input from external business professionals pitching to the ESO controlling it

Would this be opened up outside? It is in course but for the future. Potentially could be used in other schools. As a postgraduate certificate. Software on Moodle so can teach yourself.

How would you integrate the credits. At weekends and Moodle. Might reduce to a 20 credit course as it increases. Students will take something away eg they will have an embryonic website. Can set up yourself instead of outsourcing

How did you come up with the name. There is a large drop out of osteopaths. Many due to unsuccessful business skills. We had a number of names

Needs to be a bit more neutral

Need to rethink aims outcomes and content. There is overlap eg develop a business plan. This is a learning outcome. Draw this up as learning outcomes. Difficulty is how do you maintain at level 5/6. There is a tension in that these are skills but need to apply

I am interested in assessment items. Est 4500 words for a 30 credit. Is this appropriate We are concerned about this as well. We will reduce this and bring assessment together.

Discussion Simon There are some issues it is not integrated. Missing a trick. Confused about the level. Need to rethink as part of a ba should be in but should be part of the whole programme. Problem with aligning it with Greenwich attributes. Aims and outcomes are muddled. Needypos Whats this Mo? will bring it down Need to be very careful with core readers as can be very expensive needs to be more student centred. Missing typos in course

Phil Did not seem to fit into existing course.better as a postgrad

Catherine Agree with Phil as it adds too much pressure on existing work load300 credits is overkill. Phil demographically this will not be used by many credits

Do we approve or not? Phil yes with lots of conditions. Simon it may require rethink not approve I agree if it goes to postgrad it changes everything. Erring to not approved Catherine. It I was a student I would not be able to cope. The idea is good it is not at the right level and is not clear. Phil/ Simon needs to be realigned. In the past they are better as additional pdp.

Feedback Your proposal had has vigorous discussion decision is that we are not approving due to one reason there is confusion from the level. At this the fixable things become unfixable. No level 5 at an msc. also confusion on learning outcomes should it be at undergraduate or postgraduate. Without that confusion it was a well written document. Also looked at assessment and the name this is the central thing. Panel noted affordability in the modern era. More transferability of skills.

Observers Course was good but confused on level. Law very good to enable practitioners

Process. Panel did not turn of phone. Timing not enforced. People were osteopaths on panel this would normally not be the case.

Q how do you integrate this when it is sorely required? A. It is very hard. 1 make it as a pdp 2 use it as a building block for something bigger. Position as an instrument for higher levels.

Wording of learning outcomes is critical wording means is very important. That is why saw important

In respect of process there was work that could be done in thinking about it. It was not restricted to osteopaths. Need to have clarity.

Could have been applied to a number of freelance practitioners. Many students not uk based.

The way this is set up is confrontational and is easy for the panel to be defensive. Better to start again and represen t.

NOTES from weekend MIne a bit pathetic I'm afraid, too overexcited doing the pp!

So well written but learning outcomes need re-writing... too something or other... aims more pointed but too many I think. Aims need ot be wider

Need to change name Name not succeed at Skills not assessable course activity

Pro dev pdp learning amid wooly

Course level needs to be 6/7 for masters unless taken earlier.

Cut down assessments – over assessed.

Aims wider less specific Learning outcome activities

Aims Assessment Name Affordability

When / evening or day what level when transferable skills

HOpe your notes are all better. Did you get the email about where to find the level thing...??

where are you Rob? We're in costas at cutty stark

I'm with Andrew on this. If we leave a few gaping inconsistencies, they'll pick up on those, and we can be prepared with answers, that way mat be they'll not grill us on areas we're a bit wobbly on... With regards the work placement, the GOsC is pushing for all new graduates to work in established practices for a probationary period after graduation. So although in practice it would be a real nightmare to orchestrate it does fall in line with medical practice, doctors, physios etc have to do a placement. So if we're quizzed about the practicalities we can say it's a normal situation for new graduates, there are a number of large multi-disciplinary clinics which have been highlighted and students will work in a rolling rotation within their allocated clinic hours. (The school clinic does offer clinical practice with regards treatment, but not from a business perspective. The student will be like work experience members for the business that take them....free labour....!)

I would say there is no real need for changes, as Rob has noted these inconsistencies which I missed, we are now prepared for criticism to be levelled and have replies, looks good to me. In truth I can't see how a work placement would really work but I've already said that. It ticks greenwich 's boxes so all fuel for reflection. See you saturday. If you want to change all that and send it to me, I think I can re-load. Any reason why a viva can't be summative? One of the things they have been saying is to make formative assessments more varied. Though won't fight to the death if eveyone agrees!!

Thanks Andy for taking this further. I have had read through and just spotted a few inconsistencies some of which I tried to edit after Kate put them up as word documents. Page 2 under Mode of Study it says an 'optional work placement' but later says that 'all the assessments are compulsory'.

at the bottom of page 6, 'This will be a summative assessment' relating to the Viva and role play which should be with the reflection all 'formative' i think. page 7 in table - F4 'Compare and contrast a successful and unsuccessful business'. It doesn't say how the student is to demonstrate the Comparison. shall we make it a 1500 essay or do we need an F4 at all???

Page 7 in table; - pass marks should all be 50%? Looking forward to coffee and cakes

Not to blow our own trumpet but l think our course looks quite professional...have read below but not taken in. I have highlighted hte ones I think we haven't already covered in pink as nobody (mention no names) will moan about this colour....! We could meet for coffee at that place on the corner. Posh bread roll and cakes adn coffee...If I buy we get 10 percent discount for being staff...pr we could meet at the uni maybe better with Coffees in hand. 9.30 or 9.15?

Have You all read this email? Yes got it last week. Kate has suggested we meet up early before things start on Saturday to just go over a few points. Maybe if we all make a short list of points to discuss so that we can agree all before we start.

Hi all

As you prepare for your mock validation, there are a number of things your group should access and work through. Each validation will go for around one hour. Real validations or reviews can run from 3 hours out to 2 days depending on the size and complexity of the programme under consideration.

Your 1 hour will consist of;

** Up to 12 minutes initial briefing by the team (that’s you) **

This is where you will explain the course, the key learning outcomes, the learning, teaching and assessment strategy you have selected and any other issues you feel the panel should know

** Up to 20 minutes cross-examination and questions from the Panel **

This will be based on the questions below, but not exclusively so.

** Up to 8 minutes private meeting of the panel **

You normally wouldn’t see this, but as part of the formative assessment you will see the deliberations of the panel in deciding what kind of conditions, requirements and recommendations would be placed on your course.

** Up to 5 minutes feedback to the team **

The panel will provide you feedback about your course, and how it might be improved.

** Up to 5 minutes feedback on process from observers **

As the validation process will also have a number of observers (your peers) we will provide them with an opportunity to provide you with some feedback

Question you may get asked…

• What is the rationale of course? What are the aims of the course?

• What are the learning, teaching and assessment strategies?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• How did you incorporate the Greenwich Graduate Attributes?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What resources have you provided for the learner?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What kind of student support arrangements have you put in place?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What kind of research has informed the development of the course? Stealing things of the osteopathy school???

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What kind of student feedback arrangements have you used in the course?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What kind of opportunities have you provided for work integrated or practice led learning?

<span style="color: #ff00ff; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• Have you considered how the academic standards will be maintained?

<span style="color: #ff00ff; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• Can you demonstrate the appropriateness of the learning outcomes in terms of any PSRBs, subject benchmarking statements and within the selected HE level? What are PSRB's??? are they like GGA's or LO's or some entirely new acronym??? I believe this relates more to the QAA Osteopathy benchmark statement that I upoladed to the FT1 pages- I can send it out again if anyone is interested. It is an important document in the scheme of things

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• What kind of different course designs did you consider? All of them

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• How have you utilised technology and e-learning in your course design? Yup!

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• How have you considered school KPIs such as student retention, student achievement and employability within your course design? Nope

<span style="color: #ff00ff; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">• Can you describe the experience the learners will have during the progression of this course?

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">Finally, we have provided you with a number of resources on Moodle in order to prepare you for this assessment. In the section called ‘Assessment Tasks for ACAD 1287’ there is a document called ‘Guidance notes for formative task 2’. This has a number of links to valuable and helpful documents to guide your preparation for this task. We have also created a new topic called ‘Strategic measures and curriculum design' which contains some guidance on Employability, Retention and Student Achievement which are key performance indicators in many universities, including this one. We strongly urge all students on the PG Cert to read the Moodle topic 9 'Strategic Measures and curriculum design' before undertaking the mock validation. These topics will NOT be covered in the face-to-face class at the moment due to the strike, so this will be only place to access these materials.

<span style="color: #1155cc; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">http://moodle.gre.ac.uk/course/view.php?id=5728#section-12

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">Good luck and see you at the mock validation

<span style="color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: medium;">Peter

I can't edit these documents, for some reason my Word 2003 doesn't like them. So here are a few books worth adding to the reading list. I've also tried to edit docs by changing a few things and adding some additional GOsc Publications. I'm on word 2003 also. Is there another way of editing these ?I was working on the middle one. How to write a business plan.(Creating success Series) 3rd edition. Author Brian Finch. ISBN <span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #ff0000; font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">0749455829

Business Plans For Dummies by Paul Tiffany, Steven D. Peterson and Colin Barrow ISBN <span style="font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: small;">047074717X <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 1.7em;"><span style="color: #ff0000; font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 60%;">Website Design Guide for Private and Business Users - Concepts and Techniques Demystified For Beginners ISBN B006PSK1PU. **Downloadable version for Kindle (Embracing the new digital formats)**

And a web-site worth adding: [] (showing what different councils offer as business support)

And thanks Kate for finishing off the document, hopefully Andrew can edit the final draft and upload it to pebblepad.

** OK I finished the document and added a few bits. It should possibly have a little bit about GGA's too and some more books in web design and marketting? I have added a couple of bits and smoothed out english and combined stuff. Happy for you all to have an alter, but think it mainly addresses all. I have added a couple of notes about the indicative content which was put there to include whoever wrote a nice set of tasks and have also added a couple of comments and bits around assessements that need looking at. There may be other things too.... but just do. I have added the file to the set of files in a word doc and rtf too, all the same but in case anyone has a pc. I suggest you all write comments on here and then Andrew or whoever encroprates those in one sweep to avoid mutliple losses as its not a web page. Final question is, do they look at this as if they do we should clean it up as there are a few comments that probably shouldn't be on it and moans etc... Bye for now. **Thats the skype aborted then. I can't make the chat room and wednesday is a bit late. Still we have had a good set of dialogues so we should be ok on the communication side of things. I will have a little time on tuesday or wednesday so I can do the final edit and put it on pebble pad sharing. Thanks for doing the first bit Kate. Thank you Andrew for all your work in pulling this together. If it wasn't for your pragmatism I'm sure we'd still be going around in circles.// Yes thank you all, though Mo - you may need to stroke Robert on Sat and buy him multiple coffees as if it had been me I would be trembling in a heap on the floor... p.s. was going to do a bit more tonight...Hum another thought. Shall I save it as an rtf or a windows doc? Not sure what you all have. // **I honestly think level 4/5 or even 6 final year is fine. Why not just say level 4-6 as in one of the examplesThough personally as business is a new for the students, level 4/5 would be absolutely fine. We are getting them to start in business not do an MA in it. Plus if you look at our "MA" PGcert, not all of it is level 7 some is stated level 6 Exactly. I was trying to suggest that our course could be anything from 5-7, I am not suggesting that we make it level 7. Though harsh I do also mainly agree with Mo,** Thank you **we have most of the elements on that recent email and we can jazz up GGA's as they are mentioned on the recent missive, and we have employability as fundamental. The only area they mention we haven't really covered is the student support / retention etc. Not sure how that fits in, as they won't be leaving the whole course but I am guessing if its too hard they may be tempted ot drop the module. However, if its valuable advice that they know will be essential to them surviving and we keep the assessements varied and light plus things they have to do anyway then that should help. If they are planning on joining/setting up practices, then they will need CV's and business plans and need to deal with people. Also, though its bad to say...it is only formative and the more we don't have, the more we have to write about in our analysis of our course for the summative essay... perhaps we should record it somehow.... def take notes. If we have lots to criticise, then all the more to write about with all the nice reasons they give us and a few little harvard references...so whenever they say anything which is a criticism....can we carefully ask whetehr they have a reference for that/where can we read that....I am serious....the time consuming part of summatives is all those references you have to find. SO GET THEM TO DO OUR WORK!! This course is making me devious. Does it matter whether we do forums or skypes? I know someone said we have to do something.**

**Have another two swimming days at the weekend! Surreys go on forever, and despite my protestations they put Anna in the club realy team.... oh well. But will be back for 9.**

Is it essential we produce a level 7 course? No of course not I was just relaying Paula's comments as there seemed to be a bit of debate about the level of our course. Where does it say we have to do that? We can do it over 2 years if necessary. Lets try to get the document to a final edit point so we can put it on Pebble pad by wednesday of next week. Fine. Would it be viable for us all to do a skype conference call on sunday evening to iron out the last details? Lets look to simplify not complicate. 9 pm? my skype is and_allen I'll be in maidstone! I've not done skype before and not been able to get a webcam today in tonbridge. Unfortunately i haven't got time to go over to T Wells. I will be happy to go on the chat room or even speak to someone on the phone. I will have a look at what Kate's done and contribute later today.

I've just been talking with Paula (VP) about levels and credits. She feels it could be up to level 6-7 depending on how we assess and what we expect of students. if they are writing up a business plan then that would require quite a bit of critical thinking and demonstrations of autonomy which is close to level 7.She feels that 30 credits is quite a bit to fit into a fourth year already jam packed with assessment..could be a bit ambitious. Although the students may agree it is all worthwhile material they may not want to spend their time focusing on all these assessments when there are others more pressing ie. FOPE and CPA. If we keep it at 30 credits we should be willing to argue the loss of credits elsewhere. Our option is to drop to 20 and reduce the amount of assessments perhaps 2-3 formative and only one summative being the business plan which could incorporate aspects of a marketing startegy and web design. We're not actually going to put it into the current fourth year curriculum. If during the __pretend__ validation they ask us "Do you think there is sufficient space in the current fourth year curriculum" we reply "YES"..... How will they know whether there is or not????????? If you look in the red booklet page 44 the formative task is sooooo simple, and yet we seem to be trying to make it the most complicated task ever. The minimum contribution is 4 times per person, we've communicated 100s of times and are just going round in circles. Rob, you're still taking this all too literally, it's worth being aware that there may be queries regards the fitment within the current curriculum, however we just need to give them an answer that shows we've considered it. What they are worried about is the thought process not the reality. I hear your frustrations and understand your point, i just wish you would change your tone. I just thought that as the ESO are paying nearly £9,000 for us to do this course it might be nice if we could do something useful for the Institution, after all this course has been disccussed as a deficiency over the years and the new one proposed could actually be improved upon. I will endeavour to add the additional reading but I have tried three times already and it wasn't saving it. i will try from a different computer to see if that makes any difference. Also how Mo thinks the spec of the ESO PPD course is of no use is beyond me. Add whatever you think is of value to the spec sheet, rather than just talking about it, and add S2K, and Fitness to Practice to the reading material, you state above the business plan is already at level 7, why not make it even more complicated, afterall this is a FORMATIVE task!. I will try again adding to the Spec page but that page is definitely trying my patience.

Hey, I've just noticed that you can compare all of the edits we've made by clicking on the button on the top right of the screen and then choosing two edit versions to compare, amazing! We could have avoided all this colour coding, although i think it's worked quite well.

Could we also look at the QUESTIONS page and make edits/suggestions or answer some of them. If we've got a valid reply yo any of these questions we'll be pretty well prepared for the validation. I've tried to answer some of them, but apart from Kate it doesn't look as if anyone else has...... I've added some comments to the questions. I think its a good idea to go over these. they do kick up some interesting points that we need to clarify between us. For instance, level of the course and impact of the new course on the existing curriculum and cureent assesment demands.

"You may have been surprised how many factors may need to be addressed at the initial stages in curriculum development. You will note that the actual content that is to be taught is only a small component of what needs to be considered when designing a course, yet it is often the area that new designers focus on almost exclusively in the first instance." to quote from the guidance notes....therefore matching learning outcome...after completing this exercise "students" whoops - "you will be able to design a course based around learning outcomes and Q Assurance"....that then leads into the assessment as assessments have now to be linked into LO's - the assessment will look at how much we have taken these other factors into consideration and met them. Call me cynical...but that board will only be partly about content. p.s I can change the skeleton thingy motif, just did that to make you all laugh... I've read through the specifics, I'm in agreement with all the adaptations made. Seems like we are getting there. Rob maybe you could add the additional reading you mentioned and add in the relevant info from the reflective practice and research document you obtained? I believe the osteopathy course as a whole hits the GGA's and we won't get too badly grilled on that aspect. Congratulations Andy and Inga. I have only just read your green bit below as been flitting around. Wonderful news. I hope you all are doing well. I have been adding comments but they seem to have been omitted as i tried to save. I have added bits on the course spec so hope those comments are still there otherwise i've wasted a few hours. i will re check. OK I have got it now and uploaded it. The course has quite a few which is good without doing anything. Also it made me wonder whther we should include a brief look at other alternative and standard health practices and how they might work with osteopathy...if anything is ooking a bit thin. I am too tired now but I will put something at the top about how this course helps the osteopath meet greenwich grad atts... Looking at the guidance notes it states that ' The learning outcomes should encompass one or more of the objectives of the Greenwich Graduate Attributes' So we need to make sure this is entwined. I really don't know what the list below here means, what are the key components of GGAs? Is it written somewhere so we can just paste it in? At the moment it seems that as soon as we try to move forwards another problem arises. I had a look at the course that Rob emailed to us all, it's mainly about reflective practice and research, it only slightly touches on our pretend course in the final year. So of no help or concern to us in my opinion. All the better for us then. we can add all the things we consider to be important for a gradute to know No I agree, but as the pretext is the same, then you may be able to steal some more stuff from your office for our board - like research and justifications for the course and budget (very useful) resources etc etc...any of the other things in the list. I do say below, that they neglected to actually send the GGAs - its crazy how many acronyms and things to satisfy there are! SO have emailed and asked for them. I get the feeling they are things like organisation, presenting self...all employability things all of which should be in our course anyway. I will add them when they come. The list below is assessement types. I thought they may inspire us if we need to add anything as again this is another issue in Greenwich at the moment as part of the nw learning strategy they are putting in place. I will use italics in the form which I think I used before or just changed stuff. I agree with all yoru red, but we should let everyone else read I guess before we indelibly wipe. Also does one of us need to write some blah at the front like those examples... We should also clean up the top page to show involvement but to take out the I hate the course and what a load of etc....

I think the form for the course is one thing but we need to also prepare background material for the questions. It takes so long to go through the course work...but from what I have read they are wanting us to to progress from thinking its about designing a course to realising its about satisfying 9 million other things...so I figure the board will be about the 9 million other things.. The latest thing is GGA's - don't laugh...we have just had a round of emails about them at work. They are Greenwich Graduate atributes and they want them vertically and horzontally integrated across all the courses. see below Dear staff, As you all know the GGAs need to become a part of the course and programme specifications that we write. These need to be evident both horizontally (i.e. within a stage of a programme) and vertically as themes that run across the stages. I have attached a summary of the draft GGAs that will be a related part of University's new Learning, Teaching and Assessment Strategy. In terms of how these relate to the course specs I would envisage a permeation of these attributes within the documents in three specific areas.

1. the learning outcomes 2. learning and teaching activities 3. the outline details of the assessments Regards, Cos.

Dear All I had a meeting with Simon Walker today who is our School’s critical friend from the Educational Development Unit.

I sought some clarification from him regarding the introduction of the Greenwich Graduate Attributes into the course specifications and would like to highlight the following:

· Not all GGAs need to be present within a course. Different attributes are easier to incorporate and more relevant to some courses than others. It is important that all attributes are covered somewhere in a programme of study, but not each individual course.

· GGAs don’t need to be named explicitly in the course specification. E.g. if you specify that students have to give presentations, this would implicitly cover the GGA “Communicate clearly and effectively, in a range of forms, taking account of different audiences”. As part of the programme review, courses will be mapped to GGAs, so you will need to be able to identify which GGAs are covered by your course.

For some reason it wasn't attached as stated, but I have asked Cos to send teh "GGA's" to me. Also they sent this round for assessment types. Varying this is also key at the moment as Greenwich depts are having meetings about them.


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Its Kate Just using pink and purple for things from course...plus sometimes the wiki wont to change the colour! Will look at document. Is this just one term as agree with green on level 5/6 over full year and 30 credits. The reason I was asking about the terms and modules and stuff is that in order to structure them into credits you need to justify hours and how it fits into the whole credits per year. So if all the students other modules are 30 credits and they chose to do one that is 20 obviously they are short and you need to know length of terms and number for contact hours and work hours. Also 20 seems to be used for MA's like ours and not modules in an undergrad prog. Its also a hell of a lot for anyone studying noramlly. I know its all dull to look at teh actual, but it is necessary. So I think 30 and a full year. There is loads of material and if we are short we just add a placement at the end. I agree, I've changed a few things on the 'form' and put in a placement and upped the credits to 30, and changed it to a years length, have a look and edit it where you think fit, once we're al agreed on the final thing it's just a case of deleting out comments to eachother, formatting it all into the same colour and hey presto we've got a final document. I've not looked at the actual ESO document yet, so may have more to add from that.

Also I have slowly been working through the guidance material plus we are doing it with film in real life with a real course, so I am beginning to see a bit of the thinking and what the panel will ask. The guidance material said that it wasn't about the actual course its all about the other stuff, eg assessments, how it integrates, graduate attributes, Learnign outcomes, etc etc. So yes its imaginary, but you they are looking at the surroundings as much as the course. MA's tend to be 20 per term at level 7 I pasted your form with a link on this web so it is here. form Also I have included the questions to be answered which is on the resource file in the guidance notes some of which have been answered but lots not. This questions is what they want us to inlcude or have prepared for the board etc I'll look at the question list next, and try to answer some of them over this weekend.

**Formative task 2 (FT2)** In small groups, devise a course/module (minimum 20 (200 hours) HE credits corresponding to FHEQ levels) for delivery in one of the modes supported by your institution, e.g. traditional face-to-face (F2F) or blended delivery, etc. This must include some learning technology-enhancement. The group are expected to document evidence of their development process and contribute to the course discussion fora. Who's purple!

Congratulations Andrew and Inga, I've tried to answer some of the queries from Mr Purple below. Look at Andrew's document. it's brilliant, and add constructive edits, then upload your changes to the wiki so we can agree them. Thanks Mo Hi everyone, sorry I've not been around. Inga gave birth to Eli Silas Allen at 2.15 am on 2/3/2012. Hooray. Now desperately managing a 3year old Joshua's shattered world view. I now feel a deal less stressed than this time last week. Looking from the outside of this wiki(now in) we don't seem to be giving ourselves credit for our achievments last time we met! We had it all down and they chose us to demonstrate our thinking remember? See the doc I just uploaded. We are mostly there! This is based on the provided exemplar. Maybe we need to paste it into the form which I posted on the other Wiki? I guess we might not be in agreement with it all that is written but we can thrash that out over the next week or so. **__ This course is a level 5 judging by the desciption it can run over a 3 term year catering to 50-60 students? Are we happy with this? If not, why not and what do we do you get it to level 6/7? __**
 * Please look especially at the QAA bit.
 * The course content outline needs more work. Objectives need to state not mull as I have done. If you look at Mo's two docsMarketing a Health Care PracticeWriting a business plan and 1287F2 this information is there but needs to be put in that column using the right wording.
 * Additional reading needs to be found.
 * Future development needs to be added.

I have added the info files to this web from moodle. Just so its one less place... **Guidance page in moodle, guidance and resources, form started, Questions to answer in guidance!**

Some questions for you. How many students per course? about 250 ** Rob, I think you're taking this too literally, there are only 60 students per year, doing various courses (IVM, MET, GOT etc) that contribute to the whole degree of which the whole school totals about 250. On my IVM COURSE there are two classes of 28 and 30 respectively learning simultaneously. Thus the question is; 'How many students shall we have on our fictitious course?' Answer; 60, split into two classes of 30.Unless we decide to have a larger number, for whatever reason. **  How long are your terms? 3 x 12 week terms

How many courses do you run in a year? Doesn't really run like that Is irrelevant to this task. We could run 2 courses or a million, all we are trying to do is produce a new course worth 20 credits for a fictitious university which we need validating by a pretend panel, it's not real! (as I said below film is 4 courses a year but our terms are shorter than yours, 27 to 28 teaching weeks and then 4 assessement weeks at the end). So depending on the number of courses you do, ie 120/4 or 120/6? with the 30 credits its about 3 hours a week contact and study on top. If this was the case, we could run the 3 strands together, so one personal development - in which we put, wrokign for a practice or setting up own, self develoment, interview skills, working with other people and managing them skills and patient skills and a bit of psychology thrown in. Second strand could be the legal and business and business plan skills and third strand could be design and marketting and keeping business going/setting price ethos, etc. **Please look at the word document Andrew has produced, it's 90% completed this task, we just need to add a few bits to sexy it up and ensure we're happy with the maths of hours of learning to academic credits.** We could do some of the workshops with actors as two hour sessions but every other week and we could put some of the business stuff on moodle and take away contact hours or put them into seminars...that is where I don't know about how contact hours work with distant learning. Trying to read through the reims of pages I have been happily ignoring.... Also, do you do professional placement? Could spending time at a practice be of any use? We don't do placements. Although it seems like agood idea it is very difficult to get private practitioners to agree to observations so suggest we leave this out.

Also you naughty people what is this from the eso - (you are the eso?) A new module has been introduced to the revised curriculum for the 2011-12 academic session,called Personal and Professional Development. This, again,runs across all four years, with the aim of aiding the development of the student as an autonomous practitioner. A portfolio will be kept as part of this module to develop reflective skills. In Year 4, the module will include lectures helping to prepare students for practice life, including legal and employment issues, marketing and basic accounting.

So, I have explained it on modules page, but I think we are either looking at one third of a postgraduate certificate as in 20 credits **That'll do, surely. 20 credits**. and equivalent to say the first or second module of our course or we are looking at one course of four as an option in the third year of 30 credits. I am not sure how your osteopathy is organised and whether this is possilbe (I obviously wrote this before I saw they wer eno including it...). Other than that you would have to look at an evening class as a foundation degree or part of one. I thin the easiest is to say that its an optional 3rd year module in the osteopathy degree of a one year business course. This can also be offered to neighbouring colleges as an option on their degrees. ** Yes, we agree!! ** Or you have a certificate in higher education but that is a full 120 points. Sod that!

Approximately 60–80 per cent of this time will be directed through the module materials and the balance will be used for independent learning, review and revision. The number of hours required each week will vary during the length of your module. For example, if you are preparing an assignment, the number of hours required in that week may be higher than other weeks where you are studying the module materials or interacting with online and audio-visual activities. Our modules usually contain study break weeks so you can either have a rest or use these to catch up if necessary.

I think so to the latter. I have just found two exemplars on the moodle...they weren't there before but are helpful and scary. However, if we have to justify stuff on a board, we sort of need a rough framework of what we would cover. I have been trying to read the course stuff, but I find it so dull that I am destracted 30 x worse than my daughter doing maths....

http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/about_NFQ/framework_levels_award_types.html Have also found this which I now see links with the level descriptor I atached earlier. Its to do with what level we make the course and why and what they should be able to do at the end. Our BSc's have level 4 for 1st yar tehn level 5 and then level 6 and these I think are meant to link with that Blooms rubbish. I find this all quite difficult to get a handle on as I disagree fundamently with Bloom. However, our problem is this is too basic for a masters, but is it too much for an optional module of the degree, unless we cut it back? //Actually I think its OK// There is a level 4 NFQ which could be a year's evening class I think. Or its a 30 credit module. I think our PGCert is 60 credit for the year, but its harder as its masters level. What do you think? //Looking at you osteopathy course as its a masters course, you have to probably do the course if its part of the final year at either level 6 or 7... which is a bit higher standard.//

Flung up a business planning seminar thingy on a new wiki page, is this worthwhile or am i wasting my time? My feelings are that if we've got the outline of the course we can then organise the delivery, credits, ILOs, aims and assessment form for each section so that we end up with a dynamic, interactive, moodly, up to the minute course. Am i on the right tracks?

Found this:

How to Start an Alternative and Complementary Healthcare Business in Ontario http://www.cbo-eco.ca/en/?linkServID=15C820A9-FF19-D9F1-27AC0AA5C645761A Its quite good obviously Canadian but has the right headings and content ideas...and just about what we have.

Another note. Just also had a look at red handbook. SUmmative 1 is now filling me with fear and dread.... I know NOTHING of this cycle, have no opiniion and am not in the least bit interested....aaaaggghhh!!

However, Form 1 guidance notes are good and if you look at Summ 2 it asks you to justify a number of points. We need to address these in doing the course to help us with this. Sort of pointers. ALso says we need to prove we have had group discussion on four occassions at least. So we have lunch together, last nghts aborted attempt and we need two more.... By the way looks like we have to show them this. We may need to delete bits....

HELP! Now I wish I had done something in my area.... all a bit difficult for me. :-(

OK, so can't check moodle, but d3 which I have uploaded seems to be what you have to give in. I am not sure how much detail they require - should we ask. Its possible that all we need to do is headings and have an idea of content, but not specifics and then how its assessed. So if we all do pages like the marketting one on different subjets and then we need to write learning outcomes for whole thing (they love those) and work out accompanying paperworks.I also checked the red booklet, but I figure they wrote that and then redesigned this bit of the course as their F2 is different and I agree it makes little sense. However, lets just be cue seekers.... copy their course, one module adn slot in our stuff.... Just use first course as a sort of template. The designing of our course which I have sent you is veyr over view so don't worry too much about specifics. Then you just need all the paperwork and we just make that up. Easy....? We just need headings and your assessements and accompanying paperwork. Don't even need to pass as its formative. SO easy sort of ps Andrew/andy confused...

2nd March Right, what do we have to do now? I can't make sense of the red booklet. They seemed to say we need to now concentrate on the development of a course, as started below, but on page 42 of the red book it there's a summative task1 of 1500 words. When is that supposed to be done by? It has a bizarre sentence in it finishing 'explain WHY things are done the way they are done or are they way they are' What does that mean? Both S1 and S2 essays are due iin late May I think. I would say just focus on FT2 at the moment.

Anyway, I've read the comments below and agree with Rob, if we each have a subject to work on, and perhaps set up a wiki page each to upload it to. However my current state of enthusiasm is that i could quite easily drop out of this, I'm not enjoying it at all I'm afraid, it just stresses me.

I agree with Kate with regards what is already in the MOst course. Just ignore it as if it doesn't exist, and steal from it anything that we could add to ours.

No just harsh, had Karen who I don't know. How do you know who marked it? Found out, it was Peter Bryant, whoever that is, I keep getting emails from him but don't think we've ever met! Simon is really good and I like but she made comments like too many exclamation marks..and not obvious enough with my links etc. I thought i was a rather good essay... but I did pass.

Sorry Kate, been busy. I passed s2, did everyone else? Trevor failed it, my feedback was quite harsh, bearing in mind it's such a crap course!

Hope my making a new wiki is OK with everyone, you have all gone quiet - maybe too busy clicking bones, having babies and drinking vodka (doesn't that have wheat in it??) in exotci parts of the world.

Sorry Andy, I've just had a closer look at the pages you set up and realised that you've already done quite a bit. Apologies!
=== **Just pasting my comments from earlier. Did anyone or did I email it, copy the stuff I wrote before? I had some ideas about assessments. I know one was designing the website along with the accounts and another was doing a dealing with people one which tested like doctors get tested with some live sessions with actors as patients or staff. I think we should all put ideas down on a page under headings and then sift. Personally, and as I am with you, I would slightly ignore the reality of your situation ie whats being comvered already and just go for the best course. I also think it should be business for freelance or independent health care professionals. It would then have a wider reach. Non of the uni staff will know what is on your course already and I think we just want what we think is the most interesting course which makes uses our skills.** ===

=== **So from before.My understanding is that we are designing the skeleton (mark for everyone who can get skeleton into their text from now..). I don't think we have to actually prepare all the material. However, race said that the students who did the best are cue archers or something and as it seems obvious the lecturers are ll trying to get us to think Facebook,blog, moodle, essay, video etc, we should probably press their buttons?? Also presumably if we just copy their format ie two formative and 2 summative and sort of look at the basic amount they include, it will give us the right amount of material.** ===

My understanding from the lecturers and race are:

1. Use moodle, live lectures, vivas, or filmed situations, wikis, webs, on-line... I suggest we lay something out a bit like their moodle course but with some sections will say live lecture by and background reading or task to go with it. If we copied the format (though this may be masters) or an existing course but changed the content, we should be al right.

Anyone had any thoughts on F2? I suggest we try and keep it simple. We discussed the idea of a business course for osteopathy graduates. This could include Finance and accounts, Marketing, basic HR and basic IT. I don't think it neeeds to be at Masters level and it ought to be a final year course. How many hours, units?

I know we mentioned lots of other professional issues but think we can assume that they are covered on other aspects of the main course. Re: budget, we could set up lectures from BOA (British Osteopathic Association), GOSC and an Accountant, as all happens at the moment but we neeed to envelope it all into a nice package rather than sporadic extras. We should consider timescale for each part of the process.

We need to demonstrate a range of teaching methods and various modes of delivery in keeping with the modern technological age. We need to show that we have looked at market forces and justify the need for the course... This should fit in with the employability bit that seems to be a new focus. We are fortunate that Osteopathy is vocational but should consider equipping students with skills that would serve them well if they need to supplement their income with other work or decide that osteopathy is not for them. Part of their assessment could be a group effort pretending to set up a practise. they would need to write a basic business plan as if looking for an investor. This should make them think about about a SWOT analysis, capital costs and general everyday expenditure and to work on income forecasts. If we were clever we could design the course so the students accumulate knowledge along the way aiding their project which could be a summative piece of assessment. There ought to be a few formative pieces in between. Maybe when we have more meat on the bone we can create some sub pages as before and allocate areas to work on between us. I think it would be a good idea to maybe meet up on a chat forum one evening. They always seem to be empty of chat when I've tried to get on them but it could work out if we all arranged a time. Failing that I could meet with Mo and Andy at some point at the ESO.

Have renamed it.